With Dr. Nasreen Rajani. Gendered digital abuse can take lots of forms: threatening or damaging communication, cyberstalking, non-consensual distribution of intimate images, online dating abuse, hacking, doxing (publishing private information about someone online), flaming (posting insults or personal attacks), impersonation, gendered and sexualized disinformation, and more.

Studies show that those who experience more unwanted behaviour online include young women, Black, Indigenous, and racialized women, and 2SLGBTQIA+ people. Still, research is thin when it comes to exploring the nuances of gendered digital abuse in their lives. For instance, very little focusses on the experiences and perspectives of racialized women in Canada.

Over coming months, we’re delving into gendered digital hate and harassment with leading experts and content creators, releasing in-depth episodes every single week. We talk about the problem and what we can do to change it. We offer practical tips to help you in your digital life, and we talk about what it means to “take back the tech” for all of us.

Our guest Dr. Nasreen Rajani has been involved in ending gender-based violence for about seven years through her research and non-profit advocacy work. Her dissertation examined how racialized and Indigenous activists across Canada use digital tools in their work to end gender-based violence. She has been a volunteer and board member with the Women’s Initiatives for Safer Environments (WISE Ottawa) from 2016 to 2021 and is currently an advisor with the Women’s Legal Education and Action Fund (LEAF) on their technology-facilitated gender-based violence project. Nasreen is also a member of the Ottawa Coalition to End Violence Against Women’s (OCTEVAW) Black and Racialized Persons Caucus, a strategic advisory board that supports the meaningful implementation of equity, anti-racist, decolonial, and intersectional lenses on OCTEVAW’s work.

Transcript

00:00:01 Nasreen

Applying an intersectional lens is so important in this work, especially because we’ve known for a long time that women, gender-diverse folks who are, you know, also racialized, Indigenous, disabled, queer, trans, any combination of the above, have different experiences of tech-facilitated gender-based violence that, really, white cis able-bodied women don’t experience.

00:00:35 Andrea

Why is there still an intersectional gap in our data about gendered digital abuse? I’m Andrea Gunraj from the Canadian Women’s Foundation.

Welcome to Alright, Now What? a podcast from the Canadian Women’s Foundation. We put an intersectional feminist lens on stories that make you wonder, why is this still happening? We explore systemic roots and strategies for change that will move us closer to the goal of gender justice.

The work of the Canadian Women’s Foundation and our partners takes place on traditional First Nations, Métis, and Inuit territories. We are grateful for the opportunity to meet and work on this land. However, we recognize that land acknowledgements are not enough. We need to pursue truth, reconciliation, decolonization, and allyship, in an ongoing effort to make right with all our relations.

00:01:16 Andrea

Whether you’re on social media, streaming platforms, dating, messaging and meeting apps, or on game sites, if you’re a woman, girl, or Two Spirit, trans, or non-binary person, you’re at greater risk of hate, harassment, and violence.

This behaviour can take lots of forms, like threatening or damaging communication, cyber stalking, non-consensual distribution of intimate images, online dating abuse, hacking, doxing (that’s publishing private information about someone online), flaming (that’s posting insults or personal attacks), impersonation, and gendered and sexualized disinformation.

Over coming months, we’re delving into gendered digital hate and harassment with leading experts and content creators, releasing in-depth episodes every single week. We talk about the problem and what we can do to change it. We offer practical tips to help you in your digital life, and we talk about what it means to “take back the tech” for all of us.

Studies show that the people who experience more unwanted behaviour online include young women, Black, Indigenous, and racialized women, and 2SLGBTQIA+ people. Still, research is thin when it comes to exploring the nuances of gendered digital abuse in the lives of those most vulnerable. For instance, very little focuses on the experiences and perspectives of racialized women in Canada.

Our guest, Dr. Nasreen Rajani, has been working on issues of gender-based violence for about seven years, through her research and nonprofit advocacy. Her dissertation examined how racialized and Indigenous activists across Canada use digital tools to end gender-based violence. She has been a volunteer and board member with Women’s Initiatives for Safer Environments and is an advisor to Women’s Legal Education and Action Fund on their technology facilitated gender-based violence project. Nasreen is a member of the Ottawa Coalition to End Violence Against Women‘s Black and Racialized Person Caucus. In 2022, she published a paper in the Canadian Journal of Law and Technology entitled “I Bet You Don’t Get What We Get”: An Intersectional Analysis of Technology Facilitated Violence Experienced by Racialized Women Anti-Violence Online Activists in Canada.

00:03:33 Nasreen

For the past decade, you know, I’ve been really involved in ending gender-based violence and more specifically around the use of digital technologies for about a decade now. So, I’ve been a graduate student studying technologies from a critical and intersectional feminist lens.

I recently wrote my dissertation on the topic of how racialized and Indigenous Canadian women were using a variety of digital tools for their activism to end gender-based violence.

This included discussions of their experiences of receiving hate and harassment on those digital platforms they were using; so, what we call more broadly as technology facilitated violence.

00:04:19 Andrea

Tell us more about your research and what you found in applying that missing intersectional lens to the issue of gendered digital hate and harassment.

00:04:26 Nasreen

As beneficial as we often think that so many of the digital technologies, you know, we use to connect with, to build communities of support, to provide a space for solidarity and activism around ending gender-based violence, you know, these same tools are also used to inflict harm and especially on equity deserving groups.

Applying an intersectional lens is so important in this work, especially because we’ve known for a long time that women, gender-diverse folks who are, you know, also racialized, Indigenous, disabled, queer, trans, and any combination of the above have different experiences of tech-facilitated gender-based violence that, really, white cis, able-bodied women don’t experience.

Unfortunately, so much of the academic research and media coverage in the past has focused solely on the latter and their experiences, and so that was really a big part of my reason for focusing my research at looking at the specific experiences of those who are racialized. And I interviewed racialized and Indigenous women across Canada, some of whom were also queer and disabled.

You know, for instance, racialized and Indigenous folks have a very different relationship than white women with the police. And so, the constant kind of response that we hear to just, like, go to the police on these matters, like, as a first resort, or go on your computer and delete your account, you know that is just not sufficient.

So again, these assumptions we have are primarily based on a certain group of people, and so focusing on that intersectional lens really pivots our focus to looking at how different women, different gender-diverse folks, are having these experiences and then how to, kind of, once we understand that more we can come up with, kind of, better responses and solutions.

00:06:23 Andrea

What research learnings really surprised you?

00:06:26 Nasreen

I think it was most surprising and wonderful to hear that all the women I spoke with for my research were just so innovative and creative in how they use technology for their own activism.

You know, we often hear stories about, like, Twitter posts, Twitter hashtags, for instance, like was a really huge thing in the media and a lot of academic research. But for the women that I interviewed, it wasn’t always relying on typical Twitter posts and hashtags. But there are all these different spaces they created for themselves to build communities of support, to connect with others, as well as to reach out to more general populations to educate them and bring awareness to some of these issues, and some of them, you know, included podcasts for instance – what we’re doing right now. That, a few years ago wasn’t as common.

But also creating video games, forming communities within even the private message features of social media platforms, so not relying just solely on, like, the public facing features.

Research and media we’ve heard about in the past has always really focused on Twitter and Facebook, and the public facing posts, but there’s just so much more that’s going on. And so that was just really exciting for me to also learn about, and I had, like, hints about this, you know, as someone who’s plugged in a little bit into social media, that there was a little bit more going on that I was starting to see that was beyond the hashtags.

So, allowing myself to dive deeper into this, you know, really it brought me to kind of more creative ways and innovative ways that these women were using tools for their own activism.

But my research was conducted also before TikTok, so, I imagine there’s so much going on there, as well, that unfortunately, I wasn’t able to include in my research. But I’m sure others now are doing so and I’m sure I wouldn’t be surprised if there’s also a lot going on, on newer platforms that have come up, since.

00:08:27 Andrea

I read your work drawing out the difference between living in media versus living with media. That distinction seems essential. Can you talk about it?

00:08:35 Nasreen

A way to think about this is that most of us are completely immersed in the digital world, and especially since COVID, you know, we rely so much on digital technologies for so many of our everyday aspects. So, being online to work, to shop for essentials, to learn, to connect with friends and family in our communities, when, you know, social distancing was much more prioritized.

It brings benefits and conveniences to our everyday. We are not in a space anymore where most of us can easily just disconnect or just shut down our computers and walk away from digital technology. So, that would be what is meant by saying that we’re living in as opposed to living with – or maybe, as the internet and social media were just starting to be a part of every day, you know, it was a lot easier to just, like, let’s turn off the video game; let’s step away from Twitter and Facebook.

But now, you know, our world has changed so much and so quickly with digital technologies that the separation of being online and offline is so difficult for so many of us to have. So, that just as much benefit, I guess, as we reap from being so immersed with all kinds of digital technologies, technologies are also reinforcing and amplifying a lot of systemic discriminations and oppressions that impact some of us a lot more than others.

So, some of those examples that I shared earlier from some of my research, you can’t just tell people who rely on being online to stop being online just because they’re facing violence. And now that’s a reality for so many of us who are online almost all the time for our everyday and all of our necessities.

00:10:27 Andrea

How about solutions? What needs to change to make all women and gender-diverse people safer in their digital lives?

00:10:34 Nasreen

I don’t like the idea that the onus should be on us as individuals who are experiencing violence to protect ourselves.

It’s really just such a shame, you know, that we can’t rely on law enforcement and our legal communities for so many reasons, especially for the fact that they’re just still not well equipped to know how to deal with this. Law is so slow in catching up to the world that we currently experience. And there’s also just so little trust that equity deserving communities have with law enforcement that it’s really just not an option for so many.

Similarly, you know we can’t rely on digital platforms to make change to their policies and guidelines in favour of those experiencing gender-based violence on their systems. We’ve seen time and time again how little they understand the issues, how little they care to react.

So, you know, we’ll see things like posts being removed, maybe some accounts suspended, but it’s not getting to the roots of the problem. We’re really not stopping much of the violence that’s experienced.

And it’s also, again, another slow process. And, ultimately, these platforms prioritize profits, so profits increase as things like trolling on their platforms are used. So, it brings visibility and users to the platform. So, they’re not going to be quick to try to remove that on any kind of, like, systemic level.

But I do think it’s important to try to have a community of support around you, those people that you can rely on to help you get through this time, but also to help collect evidence on your behalf and to advocate on your behalf. I recognize this isn’t so readily available to everyone, so I think that we, you know, as individuals who are invested in seeing a stop to this can, really, you know, see where we can lend a hand to those in need with whatever it is they might need in terms of support.

Similarly, in cases of gender-based violence that doesn’t rely on technology, is really listening to what those individuals, what it is that they need and not pushing, you know, like go to the police, you know, not pushing things on them. Or, even if they don’t want to make a complaint and just, you know, kind of talk about it, to just be there for people. You don’t have to look very far to see what’s going on.

So, just being aware and educate yourselves as to what’s going on and not just ignoring it because I think that’s what, you know, our legal system, law enforcement, and the social media platforms, that’s what they’re relying on, is that, oh, people will just ignore it and so it must not be that big of a deal.

So, I think more advocacy to all of the above, or more advocacy to platforms from everyone, not just those experiencing it, but those who’ve witnessed it and are observing this. So, to platforms, to law enforcement, and to policymakers.

And to really take this not only more seriously, but also start being aware of it or continue being aware of it from an intersectional perspective that prioritizes even the experiences and needs of those from intersectional, equity deserving groups.

When they do start to pay attention, it’s the importance of bringing that intersectional perspective and not losing sight of that and not, kind of, going backwards almost, to looking at just the gender aspect or just the racial aspect but that these are inherently linked, and we can’t separate these in in the lives of everyone’s experiences.

00:13:58 Andrea

Would you recommend any powerful resources, research, or tools to our listeners?

00:14:03 Nasreen

I know that the work that LEAF is doing has been really fantastic in this area, so LEAF is the Women’s Legal Education and Action Fund. They’re a Canadian based nonprofit, and they’ve been doing a lot of great work on technology facilitated gender-based violence advocacy.

The really great resource out there, is they recently released a report about technology facilitated violence. It’s a plain language guide that really outlines the steps that are available for those experiencing tech facilitated gender-based violence, especially as it involves engaging the legal community, if that’s a step that you wish to take.

What’s also really great about it is it brings together all of those, kind of, the legal options that are available to you, if you wanted to press charges from a civil or, kind of, a criminal perspective and really outlines, like, what that looks like, what you need to do to take on those steps.

That kind of resource is so important for those, again, who wish to take that step, because it is so confusing and, again, so many lawyers still don’t take this seriously or just have enough education. So, it’s great that LEAF has put together this resource that, really, just makes it clear these are some of the options that are available at the moment, this is what you can expect, and this is, kind of, how to navigate that way.

Words used or, like, how people speak about legal issues is not always accessible to so many people, especially when you want, like, just, what can I do – give me, like, a quick and dirty, like I need to know what my options are instead of, like, you, yourself going through like a Google rabbit hole and not really understanding what’s happening.

My research took place, again, before COVID, so the ones that I have, like, in the past referred to may not be relevant now, or just even existing now, because we know sometimes when it comes to resources, they’re outdated. Though, I would suggest like a good Google search, you know, will go a long way in finding these things. Especially looking to, again, alternatives to social media, but looking to podcasts like this, you know, and others, mobile games, looking into maybe, again, maybe it’s like TikTok posts or influencers who are engaging in this work in a way to just try to connect with as many people as possible.

I’d suggest when you do find these, like, share them as widely as possible because most likely there are people in your circle who can benefit but are just not in a place to be able to go and look for the support. So, having it as easily accessible as people sharing it, you know, really, really increasing the visibility goes such a long way.

At least in Ontario, where I’m based, a lot of local, kind of, shelters and crisis centers, sexual assault centers, have been doing a lot of work on the ground and creating some local guides. So, when survivors of violence come in, they have something similar to the work that LEAF has been doing. Like, here’s a plain language guide on how to protect yourself.

But again, I think, really, the onus should be on community care and activism as we, kind of, advocate and really just support one another.

00:17:17 Andrea

Alright, now what?

Check out the guide from Women’s Legal Education and Action Fund entitled, Unacceptable, Responding to Technology Facilitated Gender-based Violence, at leaf.ca.

Get the facts on gendered digital hate, harassment, and abuse by visiting our fact page on canadianwomen.org.

While you’re there, read about our new Feminist Creator Prize to uplift feminist digital creators advocating for gender justice, safety, and freedom from harm.

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